Hi All,

Am hoping for some general advice. I'm currently on a Piaggio Medley, which I'm mostly very happy with, I've only been riding for about 5 months. I have a couple of questions and was hoping for some advice from more experience muppets..

- I use it exclusively around central London - in future it may change, but not likely. So no motorways or A roads. generally, I'm always restricted to 30 or 40 mph roads. no need for pillion passenger.
- Generally, I love the large wheel size, the massive underseat storage and the proportions of the bike (seat is too close / feet a are a bit cramped if I'm honest)
- I don't like feeling like I'm being blown across the road when its windy; not totally in love with how it looks, compared to say, xmax300 or Honda adv 150.

I'm looking for something that has a bit more road presence and a bit more acceleration, but is still able to filter in the very tight gaps I find on the central London roads. especially with all the new cycle lanes are in place!

So, i've looked at things like this:

- xmax 300 (seems very promising, maybe overkill for my small commute)
- forza 300 (too bulky and big for purely urban riding)
- Honda sh300i (great, but personally don't like the cut away design and limited storage)
- vespa 300 (love vespas but limited storage is a definite no.)
- piaggio beveley Sports tourer (for me, this ticks all the boxes)
- bmw c400x (pricey, promising, but limited storage)

when I called a dealer about the Piaggio Beverley, they flat out said that unless I have a locked garage (I park on street in zone 2), I would be mad to buy one and it'll get nicked in seconds. dealer said it is the absolute no. 1 bike chosen by London thieves. shocked by this, I then found enough articles online of thefts and one guy getting knee capped / jacked, to give me the slight fear. to be honest, I thought it was the xmax that they always nicked.

then realized that any small and nippy 300cc bike is a target and maybe I should stick to a 125.. my insurance is already a killer. then wondered why I wanted anything more and was it simply ego / wanting a new toy. I don't know.

I guess I'm asking: what's the best traffic munching scooter out there, that isn't too bulky to filter, but has more presence than a 125; is perfect for a sub 10 mile commute and has plenty of storage??

For me, it's the piaggio bv, but not if it's going to be get me mugged.. / in danger. stories I've heard of constant theft have put me off.

ideal bike would be Honda ADV but 300cc and able to fit a full face helmet underneath!

sorry for rambling post. any advice appreciated.

Among new bikes and for use in town, it would have to be a straight choice for me between the Xmax 300 and the Forza.

Out of town, the Xmax is dangerous on unlit roads due to its headlights (and I won't allow any nay-sayers on that - it's a fact!) although it has a higher cruising speed and easier overtaking capability than the Forza.

But I'll always have a soft spot for Kawasaki J300SE-ABS, which is a cross between the Sh300 and the two above, I'd say. The fuel consumption is about mid-70s (low 90s for the Forza, upper 90s for the Xmax but your journey type will probably bring all those down) but it matches the Xmax on power and so is a bit more than the Forza. Best of all, it looks great and handles superbly. It encourages you to ride quickly (not necessarily a plus point, I'll admit) and just seems more alive than the duller Xmax and Forza.

The J300 is based on the Kymco Downtown, which is also an option if you are looking at 2nd hand as it should be cheaper than the J300.

Yeah, my post rambled a bit too and didn't really make a recommendation, so here it is: buy a Forza.

tomz wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:51 pm when I called a dealer about the Piaggio Beverley, they flat out said that unless I have a locked garage (I park on street in zone 2), I would be mad to buy one and it'll get nicked in seconds. dealer said it is the absolute no. 1 bike chosen by London thieves.

It's not! it's close but no cigar.

tomz wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:51 pm
- vespa 300

This is ^

tomz wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:51 pm
- Honda sh300i (great, but personally don't like the cut away design and limited storage)

For me it would be this ^ and buy a topbox for extra storage.

To an extent, if you are going to ride exclusively in the city, then really having a 300cc or thereabouts scoot is a waste of money - a 125 will be perfectly good on urban roads, even 50mph limit dual carriageways. In London, do you ever even get to 40?? A 300 becomes more useful if you want to do longer journeys on faster Main roads ie those with 60 or 70 limits, especially if headwinds and steep gradients are in the mix. I suspect these aren't a big issue in central London! Don't get me wrong - a 300 / 400 scoot is a great thing to have as it allows you to do a far wider range of journeys than you might like on a 125 - but if you are only in the City, then this might not be useful in practice. There again, 300cc scoots are sometimes sold for little more than a 125, so are much better value.
If you want something with more presence, then there are some scoots around that have very similar bodywork to their bigger sisters. I'm a bit hazy on current 125s - years ago, Piaggio did the X9 in various sizes from 125 to 500 in the same body. If you stick to a 125, I'd consider the Honda Forza 125 - its a decent size for a 125, has good performance & luggage space, and looks fairly big. I notice the lack of Taiwanese scoots on your list - Sym and Kymco (if you can find a dealer) scoots are top quality. Peugeot also used to do some good models, ie the Citystar was a big and powerful 125.

Interesting about the Piaggio Bev 350ST. They are obviously still in demand in London. When I wanted rid of mine, a London dealer instantly got in a van and drove 250 miles to buy mine, offering me around 3 times what I would have taken for it! I wonder what happened to it - by the sound of it probably nicked and used in a ram-raid! Awful handling and very uncomfortable for me, but my goodness, that engine made it really motor!!!!!

I was about to suggest the Sym, but nobody's mentioned the 200 Burgman. It's a little physically smaller than the 400, with plenty room for an underseat helmet if not the vast cavern of its bigger brother. Come to think of it, their 125 baby burg is the same size!

MrGrumpy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:32 pm To an extent, if you are going to ride exclusively in the city, then really having a 300cc or thereabouts scoot is a waste of money - a 125 will be perfectly good on urban roads, even 50mph limit dual carriageways.

A very important point, worth noting.

Whatsisname wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:43 am I was about to suggest the Sym, but nobody's mentioned the 200 Burgman. It's a little physically smaller than the 400, with plenty room for an underseat helmet if not the vast cavern of its bigger brother. Come to think of it, their 125 baby burg is the same size!

The UH Burgmans have quite a cavern under the seat.

I could fit my full face "adventure" helmet with peak , plus a waterproof jacket, and trousers under the seat with some careful packing. My Winter gloves fitted in te lockable front compartment.

Whatsisname wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:43 am I was about to suggest the Sym, but nobody's mentioned the 200 Burgman. It's a little physically smaller than the 400, with plenty room for an underseat helmet if not the vast cavern of its bigger brother. Come to think of it, their 125 baby burg is the same size!

Yes, that's a possibility (I used to have one of those as well!). I suppose you could say it is the definition of 'mid sized' as its bigger than most of the smaller 125s but its a lot smaller than, say, the Burgman 400. Decent underseat space and quite comfortable in town. 200 version will reach 75 or so. Suspension is quite primitive, but works well enough in town - its only in the sticks when you notice its limitations. Yes, the 125 & 200 versions are identical apart from the engine.

For town only I would get a PCX 125, the fastest thing there is from 0 to 30 feet away!

It is like having a 60mph bicycle and you can get through very small spots, drive down the pavement/alleyways, park it anywhere and probably get it in your house without a foot down!

Plus it is like free motoring, can be sold in hours if you dont want it anymore, cheap to buy and run smart and good looking too.

300 will only benefit you on dual carriage ways and motorways.

I reckon Forza is slightly smaller than xmax, but has crap mirrors and in London you need good mirrors.

thank you all - some great advice here. I will definitely take another look at the forza, the sym and I hadn't even considered the burgman 200.. i wonder if that extra 75cc will give me all the poke i want without the headache of massive premiums and theft risk. maybe a good plan.

if i'm honest, i think the 300 step up is more about ego and "progressing" to something bigger.

i can't remember exactly, but i thought i read somewhere that some of the burgman line was being discontinued