Honda Quality

[MrGrumpy]

Now we've discussed the possible quality or lack of it from scoots & bikes built in the Far East or elsewhere, especially where they are sold by big name brands eg KTM's small bikes being made in India, BMW scooter engines from Taiwan - and of course now Honda who make the PCX and Forza in Thailand

I get the impression that the general build quality of the PCX has been good - apart from the centre stand issue, which is as much a design issue.

I was in the workshop of my local posh bike dealer (dealing with big 4 Japanese brands) and I mentioned that the early TMaxs were better built than later ones being made in Japan. This led to the mechanic being utterly scathing about the quality of Honda's CBF125 bike which we were standing by. He didn't know where it was made (any ideas?) but said they were completely rubbish, and went so far as saying if it didn't have a Honda badge on you'd think it was a cheap Chinese import! It probably didn't help that the example in question had comprehensively lunched its engine, with the Piston breaking into pieces with the remnants stuck in the top of the block!

I thought that was quite interesting - and slightly concerning! It may come down to exactly which factory makes your Honda (or Suzuki, or Yamaha...)

[capitano]

The original ones were made in India. In fact it was part of Honda India's range for 2 years before we got them.

They sold hundreds on price. The initial deal was £1700 which for a fuel injected 125 with a Honda badge was an astounding deal. They've hiked significantly since by nearly a grand.

MCN (though whether anyone actually believes anything MCN write these days) ran one alongside a Chinese Lexmoto ZSX 125 recently....and both testers preferred the Lexmoto which was £1000 cheaper .

[gn2]

There have always been issues with some Hondas, but by and large they are pretty good.
My PCX centre stand tore a bit of the crankcase off, luckily there's no oil leakage.
In three years of use it has never once failed to start and has run perfectly for 18,000 miles mostly at near full throttle.

[Steve_D]

.........In three years of use it .....has run perfectly for 18,000 miles mostly at near full throttle.

Blimey, 18,000 miles at 48mph. You've got a good 'un!

[Bluebottle]

I think where it was designed matters too, the material spec seems to be adrift on some of them.

@ GN2, don't take this the wrong way but I saw your thread where you described using a hammer to extract the stand pivot from the cast lugs a few days before they failed. Have you checked how many of the failed castings got the same treatment?
Might be worth posting a plan B to avoid lateral stresses on the casting

[gn2]

That's a very valid point and in hindsight I would be reluctant to use the trusty old reciprocating tolerance adjuster.
Although in my defence, I was quite gentle with it, the thing wasn't too bad and didn't need a lot of persuasion.
Getting it out without applying force on the lug would be rather tricky though.
(any Plan B suggestions most welcome and I'll post them up)
Honda have accepted that it is a design/manufacturing fault and offered to provide parts... but alas not the labour.
The fracture was a two stage process, one half broke long before I ever went near it with the hammer, as evidenced by ingress of dirt and corrosion in the break.
The second fatal break was shiny.

The first break I heard of was on a mint condition six month old one in the USA.

[gn2]

.........In three years of use it .....has run perfectly for 18,000 miles mostly at near full throttle.

Blimey, 18,000 miles at 48mph. You've got a good 'un!

You're probably right, the speedo said 55... but it tells porky pies

[spaceprobe]

I think you need to be careful about jumping on which country builds better than others especially since all manufacturers are trying to save money. For example one of my friends bought a UK built Honda Civic. I have driven it and felt very underwhelmed by its quality. Another friend spent a lot on a stainless steel AEG freezer. It had to be replaced under warranty, and when the second one developed the same fault AEG told him there had been problems with this model which was made in China (first he had heard of it). A few year back I bought a new Kia Sportage and apart from the paint which scratched when you looked at it I had 4 trouble free years. My SYM is of course is made in Taiwan and I have to say I cant fault the build quality, when I dropped it the only bodywork damage was scratched paint, no cracked or out of line panels. One assumes when choosing Taiwan to make their scooter parts BMW did not want their reputation damaged. We live in a global village theses days and goods come from countries we are not used to. I am old enough to remember when nobody would touch a Japanese car or bike.

[Bluebottle]

I think that is very true Spaceprobe.
It's down to the individual production line - some factories have a premium production line for certain products an there best workers get promoted to work on it, better materials, tolerances and quality control. Companies can select what cost/quality they get the work done at.

[Bluebottle]

....any Plan B suggestions most welcome and I'll post them up

With hindsight I'd leave it where it is and try to work in enough oil to stop it seizing.

But....
If the stand really needed to come off I don't know the official technique. If it was me I would press the pin out with a hub puller or converted G cramp I keep for that type of thing. If it is a friction fit at both ends of the pin I'd tension the press on one side and lever at the other. Obviously it depends where the pinch point is.
Anything that acts on the pin to lug contact and avoids acting on pin to whole bike.