wozza wrote:You lot are a bunch of clever gits...... All this is way beyond my peanut.....

I think some people rely on making hard to read sentences and try to use jargon so you won't question them.
But it doesn't work if somebody comes along with more science and more jargon.

I try to keep it simple and leave the jargon at work

Bluebottle wrote:

wozza wrote:You lot are a bunch of clever gits...... All this is way beyond my peanut.....

I think some people rely on making hard to read sentences and try to use jargon so you won't question them.
But it doesn't work if somebody comes along with more science and more jargon.

I try to keep it simple and leave the jargon at work

i might use things but try to get my head round the tech, didnt mean anything though as it gets confusing i have used and still do use the sealed batteries for my sons scoot.... but which is best i am probably wrong but i was lead to believe the sealed batteries recharge 300 times where the lightweight lifepo4 batteries recharge up to 1500 times
and the weight= 4 x 12v batteries against 48v 20ah LiFePO4 Battery with a BMS 5A Charger will probably weigh less than one 12v sealed battery and you can now get them around £350 just wondered what the lads thoughts were

I don't know much about LiFePO4 , maybe another Muppet does?

I've seen them used and I remember the techs liked them because they are more stable chemically and they don't drop off like some others do.
They give full voltage, full voltage, full voltage....................still full, dying, gone
Instead of full voltage, nearly full voltage, 1/2....poorly, dying, nearly dead

A flat output instead of a curved decay
Does that make sense?

I think they needed a bit more care, so the charging software was more complex but they have been around for a while now so that might have changed.

I'd look on the EV and e-bike forums, those guys will have used and abused them

Bluebottle wrote:I don't know much about LiFePO4 , maybe another Muppet does?

I've seen them used and I remember the techs liked them because they are more stable and they don't drop off like some others do.
They give full voltage, full voltage, full voltage....................still full, dying, gone
Instead of full voltage, nearly full voltage, 1/2....poorly, dying, nearly dead

A flat output instead of a curved decay
Does that make sense?

I think they needed a bit more care, so the charging software was more complex but they have been around for a while now so that might have changed.

I'd look on the EV and e-bike forums, those guys will have used and abused them

thanks for that they do have a BMS so should be ok i wish i had a garage as would have had one by now, to fettle with

There was a good site for people making DIY electric vehicles and conversions. making there own generators and wind turbines out of scrapped high grade motors

They had very knowledgable people on there talking about battery chemistry

I couldn't find it but I came across this about ferophosphate batterieshttp://www.electricbike.com/lifepo4-battery/

i have seen a scoot near me for sale.. its based in the Zhejiang Huatian Corp 50cc/125cc HT125T-15 i did one of these up a few years ago as a learning thing.. very robust frame etc anyways this is the imported Saiting ST12 (1400W) Electric Moped has 48v x 24AH(lead acid) Batteries and looks in fair nick on a 2012 plate new batteries in 2013 as the moped had been in storage since 2008, this first wave of electric scoots around the 2008 year where based on available frames. this one dont have the controller down the side either, so what do you think is it worth having a look http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... Track=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems others too, are outing the hype about `clean` electric vehicles:
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2014/05/ ... ted-topic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the “Executive Summary” from the very lengthy Climate Central report:

An electric car is only as good for the climate as the electricity used to power it. And in states that rely heavily on fossil fuels like coal and natural gas for their electricity there are many conventional and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles that are better for the climate than all-electric cars today.

But that is just part of the story. Another critical factor is the carbon emissions generated when a car is manufactured. Emissions from producing the battery and other electrical components create a 10,000 to 40,000-pound carbon debt for electric cars that can only be overcome after tens, or even hundreds of thousands of miles of driving and recharging from clean energy sources.

This comprehensive state-by-state analysis of the climate impacts of the electric car, plug-in hybrid electrics, and high-mileage, gas-powered hybrid cars takes both of these factors into account – the source of energy used to power the car and carbon emissions from vehicle manufacturing.

We found:

In 40 states, a high-efficiency, conventional gas-powered hybrid, like the Toyota Prius, is better for the climate (produces fewer total “lifecycle” carbon emissions) than the least-polluting, all-electric vehicle, the Honda Fit, over the first 50,000 miles the car is driven.
In 26 states, an efficient plug-in hybrid is the most climate-friendly option (narrowly outperforming all-electrics in 10 states, assuming a 50:50 split between driving on gas and electric for the plug-in hybrid), and in the other 24 states, a gas-powered car is the best. All- electrics and plug-in hybrids are best in states with green electrical grids with substantial amounts of hydro, nuclear and wind power that produce essentially no carbon emissions. Conventional hybrids are best in states where electricity comes primarily from coal and natural gas.
For luxury sedans, in 46 states, the gas-powered Lexus ES hybrid is better for the climate than the electric Tesla Model S, over the first 100,000 miles the car is driven.


So, Carbon Debt means that you have to cover more than 100,000 miles before the electrickery starts to offer advantage? All arguments for electric vehicles are ludicrous, baseless and simply hype. Technology needs to mature, but mostly it's the proponents of that technology that need to grow up. Electrically-powered vehicles may have certain short-term advantages (and it really is short, given the battery range...) but ICE is a long way from outmoded. Yet.

You could take the same report and spin it to show that electric cars are better.
In the end the fact remains that fossil fuels are a finite resource and will run out.
The time to think about other options is upon us, ICE definitely isn't the future.

Very true GN2...
If you read the report it says
Electric vehicle takes 100,000 miles to negate carbon if it is a luxury sedan in the most polluting state in the most polluting country
My silicon batteries lightweight will do it several times over

Petrol vehicle never, ever will ...anywhere...ever

No combustion engine can ever get as clean as an electric can

Glad your back Irev, I can ask my question again.

It takes more electricity to refine a litre of fuel than to ride my leccy scoot for 20 miles.
Same amount of electric but the petrol is left in the ground (engine oil too), not transported or spilled.
Which fuel is greener to cover that 20 miles?