gn2 wrote:

Meldrew wrote:Now how do you know they were crap

Two things.
1: My eyesight, I can tell by looking that they are ridiculously top heavy and have you ever seen anyone on the pillion seat...?
2: You cannot take a test on one because they are unfit for the purpose.

Have to say I agree with that.

All that protection but in the crash tests you see the riders limbs outside of the protective cage so it's main selling point is useless as you still need to wear a helmet and protective gear to be safe.

And how do you do a proper looking behind you lifesaver on one when you need to?

gn2 wrote:

Meldrew wrote:Now how do you know they were crap

Two things.
1: My eyesight, I can tell by looking that they are ridiculously top heavy and have you ever seen anyone on the pillion seat...?
2: You cannot take a test on one because they are unfit for the purpose.

As the resident C1 Expert (I worked with BMW on the project) I hear what you say.

1: They are top heavy at a standstill. Not when moving. Having pushed more than a thousand people about on one, wheeled them around with engines off and ridden nearly 20,000 miles on them I know this from experience.
How about you?

2: The test was revised after the C1 came out. The exclusion was made from CBT based on a lack of knowledge or skill on the part of the DSA who are literally incompetent and cretins when it comes to motorcycles. The correct usage of the C1 makes it uniquely suited to being pushed about from either side of the bike - something no other current PTW can match to this day. You don't blame Poland for WWII because they allowed the Nazis to invade.
There are numerous other scooters that are currently unsuited to the test requirements, usually because they make too little or too much stated horsepower. only the C1 is currently overtly excluded.

This will change again in January 2013. And this time you can blame France for alllowing the Krauts to walk all over them...

irev wrote:1: They are top heavy at a standstill. Not when moving.

Clearly different laws of physics apply to BMW scooters.

My recollection of those memos/meetings is that C1's capability wasn't in question, it was a practical issue of observation, the examiner could not always see what the candidate was doing.

Unlike GN2's bike which is not suitable due to the bikes inability to keep up with national speed limit traffic flow

I've no idea how he comes up with "because....not fit for purpose", I assume it is an invention?
If so, surely it applies to the less able bike rather than the less observable?
Perhaps the logic has been a little skewed to fit the prejudice?

Bluebottle wrote:Unlike GN2's bike which is not suitable due to the bikes inability to keep up with national speed limit traffic flow

Spherical objects.
The PCX is designed to meet the specification of a "Light Motorcycle" which means it is restricted to 100kph.

Bluebottle wrote: I've no idea how he comes up with "because....not fit for purpose", I assume it is an invention?

You can't sit any test on a C1 ergo, unfit for the purpose of sitting a test.
The reason is irrelevant, you just can't use one for a test, end of.

Bluebottle wrote:If so, surely it applies to the less able bike rather than the less observable?
Perhaps the logic has been a little skewed to fit the prejudice?

Yes, your logic is skewed to fit your prejudice, which is different to mine.
Anyway this petty bickering hasn't got much to do with the TGS...
Which remains an overpriced pile of shite. (in my opinion)

That sounds like back pedalling. It was important enough before it turned into a losing bet

The logic is yours, I just replaced your facts with real ones.
My prejudice? another assumption, which one am I for/against?

They can stick any price they like on it as far as I am concerned because the engine is too big and storage too small for my needs. I'd be interested to see if the plastics are better on the production models and it intrigues me that they are entering the scooter market. I'd prefer 300-500cc and more practical.

Bluebottle wrote:I'd prefer 300-500cc and more practical.

Me too.
And cheaper.
Much cheaper.

gn2 wrote: And cheaper.
Much cheaper.

Cheap is not always a good choice. Example, son was setting up new home, I suggested new kettle similar to ours at it had lasted over 7 years and currently only costs £35. Instead he went for the cheaper model, £20, which lasted only 2 years. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Until I see and test the new BMW I will not know if the extra cost is worth it. Seeing the recent problems with the Honda SH300 I am not impressed with that build.

Definitely true that cost is no guarantee of quality.
Plenty expensive BMW bikes have had major mechanical issues.
As I see it hat the problem BMW may have with the TGS is lack of mass market appeal.
It will only sell to a very few people wealthy (and gullible) enough to buy one.
Had BMW brought out something more in keeping with Bluebottle and myself's wish lists I think they would sell more.
Harsh reality is that they may make more profit selling fewer expensive ones than more cheaper ones.
The profit margin on that ten grand has to be higher than it would be at say five to six grand.
My sincere hope is that this venture fails catastrophically.
Should it be a success, other scooter manufacturers may follow suit and shift their focus further away from the 250-300-400cc segment where there are precious few choices as it is.
Then we would end up in the situation that exists with regular bikes, which is a great yawning chasm with virtually no options between 125 and 600.

Well for me the engine size is good, I'm heavy and I regularly take a pilion which is fine most of the time with the Xevo but it does become quite sluggish and I'd like something bigger so as not to strain the engine so much on the m'way with a pillion. Your needs are different, which is fine too.

Currently we have the silverwing and burgman as the only two big engined big luggage capacity scoots so the BMW 650gt is a welcome addition.

It is overpriced but I don't hope it fails completely. I do hope they reduce the price though.