wozza wrote:I must admit I don't fully understand how the Mana works, as it seems to be part CVT, but I believe it's supposed to have 7 gears... Please update me if I've got it wrong. The Honda can't go into neutral full stop without the machine stopping first.

It does have a CVT, but with a slight modification in having stepper motors which can lock it into specific positions giving the effect of being geared. The positions are determined by the selection of sport/economy/wet function. If you were clever enough you could reprogramme the computer to have your own gearing.

wozza wrote: Mr Grumpy sorry matet, but that is total crap from MS&aL and I'm surprised at the mag as it's one of the better mags on the market. - The DCT is not hellishly slow to kick down (well I don't find it so anyway) and it most certainly does not go into neutral everytime you stop. It only goes into neutral after you switch the engine off, or after you come to a stop when you the rider press the neutral button.

Well - this is why I wanted to ask the question of someone who owned one. Going into neutral every time you stopped would put me off it totally, so I'm glad that MSL are talking crap and Honda got something right!

Earl wrote: I'm not saying the mana has a neutral, I'm saying that if you open the throttle you engage the variator and it moves forward under power, if you shut the throttle you dis-engage the variator so are moving un-powered (if thats a word) like being in neutral.

What we are talking about here is effectively engine braking isn't it? I'm told that the Silverwing has very little..ie when you take you hand off the throttle it coasts, and it would appear the Mana is the same, whilst the Tmax has a moderate amount of engine braking, whilst the Burger 650 has quite a lot, especially in Power mode....you barely need brakes in Power mode!!!

MrGrumpy wrote:

wozza wrote: Mr Grumpy sorry matet, but that is total crap from MS&aL and I'm surprised at the mag as it's one of the better mags on the market. - The DCT is not hellishly slow to kick down (well I don't find it so anyway) and it most certainly does not go into neutral everytime you stop. It only goes into neutral after you switch the engine off, or after you come to a stop when you the rider press the neutral button.

Well - this is why I wanted to ask the question of someone who owned one. Going into neutral every time you stopped would put me off it totally, so I'm glad that MSL are talking crap and Honda got something right!

Mr Grumpy you say the fact it goes into neutral everytime you stop would put you off, well your Tmax does it aswell, and the engine braking on the mana is excellent better than my Nexus was and better than the GTS I rode.

The way I understand it on the DCT is that the bike is always in 2 gears, and that each of the twin clutches operate on a different set of gears. So in effect clutch 1 operates gears 1, 3 and 5, and clutch 2 operates gears 2, 4 and 6.
So the machine switches between clutches when going up and down the box.

MrGrumpy wrote:

Earl wrote: I'm not saying the mana has a neutral, I'm saying that if you open the throttle you engage the variator and it moves forward under power, if you shut the throttle you dis-engage the variator so are moving un-powered (if thats a word) like being in neutral.

What we are talking about here is effectively engine braking isn't it? I'm told that the Silverwing has very little..ie when you take you hand off the throttle it coasts, and it would appear the Mana is the same, whilst the Tmax has a moderate amount of engine braking, whilst the Burger 650 has quite a lot, especially in Power mode....you barely need brakes in Power mode!!!

Have a go on one and see what you think. Not everyone likes them, but some motorcycle journalists have been pleasantly surprised.

The NC700 has been chosen by MCN as best standard bike of 2012. Two US mags Cycle World and Motorcyclist have done the same. Only time will tell how well the DCT transmission will hold up over long term use. The manual version has a fantastic gear box with a very slick and precise operation.

Earl wrote:
Mr Grumpy you say the fact it goes into neutral everytime you stop would put you off, well your Tmax does it aswell,

Errm No... A standard CVT transmission doesn't have a neutral at all. When you stop, the clutch (normally centrifugal) disengages to stop you stalling, but re-engages automatically when you twist the throttle. Actually, a selectable neutral would be nice.....but anyway, it does it all for you.
However, the issue was that the magazine article said that the DCT put you into neutral automatically, and that you had to select a Drive mode (D or S) to start off again, which would be very annoying, but thankfully was bollox. I believe the DCT has a selectable neutral, but doesn't put you in it, so must have some form of auto clutch like a CVT.

wozza wrote:
Have a go on one and see what you think. Not everyone likes them, but some motorcycle journalists have been pleasantly surprised.

The NC700 has been chosen by MCN as best standard bike of 2012. Two US mags Cycle World and Motorcyclist have done the same. Only time will tell how well the DCT transmission will hold up over long term use. The manual version has a fantastic gear box with a very slick and precise operation.

I'm quite happy to try a DCT transmission, but I'm waiting for Honda to put one in a PTW that I would actually want to buy. The big VFR and Crosstourer are obviously far too OTT, and whilst the N700X looks potentially interesting, chain drive and the lack of any real weather protection puts me off. The Integra sorts out the weather protection issue, but there's no storage.

MrGrumpy wrote:The big VFR and Crosstourer are obviously far too OTT, and whilst the N700X looks potentially interesting, chain drive and the lack of any real weather protection puts me off. The Integra sorts out the weather protection issue, but there's no storage.

Exactly the same reasons why I would not buy any of them...

Ferrit wrote:

wozza wrote:I must admit I don't fully understand how the Mana works, as it seems to be part CVT, but I believe it's supposed to have 7 gears... Please update me if I've got it wrong. The Honda can't go into neutral full stop without the machine stopping first.

It does have a CVT, but with a slight modification in having stepper motors which can lock it into specific positions giving the effect of being geared. The positions are determined by the selection of sport/economy/wet function. If you were clever enough you could reprogramme the computer to have your own gearing.

Thanks for the info Ferrit.. . I must admit I didn't really know how it worked.