X10 brake pump?

[spaceprobe]

Hunting around on line for some more info on the pumps i came across this post, sadly does not make good reading.
http://maxi-scoots.com/scoot/index.php?topic=4159.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Data]

Hello guys, this has me perplexed too! A master cylinder rebuild takes minutes with new seals and springs. But, this is described as a brake pump replacement. Does it contain some electronics, valves etc that are too complex to be replaced by techs? Is the brake pump a completely separate item to the matercylinder? I am going to be looking at the X10 500 along with spaceprobe by the sound of it (we are both I suspect becoming more set on the Max600i). This brake pump thing needs complete clarification though before I part with hard earned on any X10 I might contemplate. So, I'm going to speak directly to Piaggio asap and get the definitive answer. I'll be back...errr....no I'm not terminating anyone!

[spaceprobe]

Data to the rescue, that post from guy with his problems with his 350 also did not make easy reading

[gn2]

Does the ABS system have a recirculation pump?
Could it be the ABS unit that needs replaced rather than the master cylinders...?
I suspect that as was previously suggested there may be a bit of mis-translation afoot.
Either way methinks Piaggio have scored a really bad own goal with this one.
Which is a real shame because the X10 is a beautiful well designed machine and deserves to do well.

[jamie]

well both technical depts at piaggio uk and head office in Italy both state .. the definitive answer is they have to be changed ..

`to maintain the integrity of the braking system on advice from the manufacturer of the system the pumps must be replaced this is due to safety concerns`

I hope you find otherwise

as for trading standards they reckon its a non starter ... due to piaggio clearly listing it as a serviceable item in the handbook .. I did point out that you don't get the handbook until you have bought it and no mention of this is made prior to purchase and no other manufacturer does this ....... basically its our own fault for not insisting on being able to read the handbook prior to purchase ..

I will say if you don't do many miles it really isn't an issue and don't be put off buying one its a cracking scoot ..

its just pissed me off because I rack up the miles on it and have clocked 8,000 since july and means an extra trip to Exeter and the best part of 300 quid every 8 months or so and that's not counting of a day off work being self employed no work no pay and over three years kinda adds well over a thousand pounds to the cost of buying it

[jamie]

Does the ABS system have a recirculation pump?
Could it be the ABS unit that needs replaced rather than the master cylinders...?
I suspect that as was previously suggested there may be a bit of mis-translation afoot.
Either way methinks Piaggio have scored a really bad own goal with this one.
Which is a real shame because the X10 is a beautiful well designed machine and deserves to do well.

what ever the translation is mate ...... it needs doing and is just under 300 quid a go

[abitmad]

...I will say if you don't do many miles it really isn't an issue and don't be put off buying one its a cracking scoot ..

its just pissed me off because I rack up the miles on it and have clocked 8,000 since july and means an extra trip to Exeter and the best part of 300 quid every 8 months or so and that's not counting of a day off work being self employed no work no pay and over three years kinda adds well over a thousand pounds to the cost of buying it

I'm in the former camp with my Bev, which has I think similar servicing requirements to the X10. Have done only about 2,000m in about 14 months. So the brake pump replacement doesn't really concern me much but I can understand that for very high mileage owners it is problematic.

Like you say with the X10, the Bev has been a superb scooter so far with no faults. It's comfortable, fast, handles and has reasonable storage enabling a helmet under the seat yet without the lardy bodywork of many maxis, so that it is good in town as well as fast roads.

8,000m since July is a huge mileage. If you keep that rate up, it makes an annual total of around 15,000 which probably makes you one of the biggest mileage scooter owners in this country. Wouldn't just about every scooter on that sort of mileage have big service bills over say a three year ownership period, not just the X10 or Bev?

[jamie]

...I will say if you don't do many miles it really isn't an issue and don't be put off buying one its a cracking scoot ..

its just pissed me off because I rack up the miles on it and have clocked 8,000 since july and means an extra trip to Exeter and the best part of 300 quid every 8 months or so and that's not counting of a day off work being self employed no work no pay and over three years kinda adds well over a thousand pounds to the cost of buying it

I'm in the former camp with my Bev, which has I think similar servicing requirements to the X10. Have done only about 2,000m in about 14 months. So the brake pump replacement doesn't really concern me much but I can understand that for very high mileage owners it is problematic.

Like you say with the X10, the Bev has been a superb scooter so far with no faults. It's comfortable, fast, handles and has reasonable storage enabling a helmet under the seat yet without the lardy bodywork of many maxis, so that it is good in town as well as fast roads.

8,000m since July is a huge mileage. If you keep that rate up, it makes an annual total of around 15,000 which probably makes you one of the biggest mileage scooter owners in this country. Wouldn't just about every scooter on that sort of mileage have big service bills over say a three year ownership period, not just the X10 or Bev?

mileage comes in riding to spain once a month sometimes more I enjoy the ride rather than flying and last year I clocked up 21500 miles and im prepared for big servicing costs but im buggered if I should be expected to pay over a grand just to service the brakes .. that's not including any pads that are needed .. that's just wrong .

[michaelphillips]

if you look here at the schematic http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/genuinep ... ines?uid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it shows the master cylinders going down to the HYDRAUL.ELECTRON.CONTR.UNIT (ABS) no1 on list... so as this is above £500 to replace it cant be that... so must be the master cylinder seals as i suppose the above control unit will have copper washers/nuts to attach the brake lines... the bev 350 also shows the same http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/genuinep ... ders?uid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but there also is a pressure governing valve item No 10 on this schematic http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/genuinep ... pers?uid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
so this looks like its attached to the rear and front left caliper,,, so does it have combined rear braking with the front left

[maxsymiser]

Pal with the X-10 has been in touch with Trading Standards who have made a note of the problem but say he should take up the problem with the dealer to sort out.