Piaggio X 10

[SpikeOne]

The truth is that it depends on whether you're trying to pass a test, or ride a bike.
In the first case it matters not a jot what any of us believe, it only matters what the tester is looking for, and he/she is looking for front brake first, pause, then back brake. Once you've passed you can please your bloody self...

[Bluebottle]

Too true Spike, give the answer and move on.

I've got a professional interest in the physics though. It is the stuff I deal with day to day for the biggest manufacturers, defence contractors and software companies you can think of.
If I was a grocer and somebody said "apples are utter nonsense there is no such thing" I'd feel the need to show them an apple 3-4 times and then give it up as a lost cause, same thing.

As Poldark pointed out, there are many variations of weight distribution, geometry etc plus road surface and general tribology that change things one way or the other but I can ramble on about that too.

What do you mean please don't?

[SpikeOne]

Quite a short repost from you, Bluebottle!
We usually get long ones with loads of numbers that no bugger understands.
Not that I don't learn 'em by heart and look good at parties mind you!
:0)

[Bluebottle]

Yeah, I think me and Data have the same disease.

Once Isaac Newton gets in your head its hard to switch the bugger off.

[Bluebottle]

By the way on Honda 3 piston linked brakes the rear lever doesn't apply full braking to the front wheel.

Some posts on the net seem to assume that linked brakes apply both front and back equally but they don't. There is a proportional split of back 70/front 30

[gn2]

By the way on Honda 3 piston linked brakes the rear lever doesn't apply full braking to the front wheel.

Pretty obvious as the Combi brake is only connected to the front caliper's centre piston.

There is a proportional split of back 70/front 30

Didn't know what the split figure was, that's genuinely helpful info if it came from Honda and applies to all CBS machines.

[Bluebottle]

Comes from my skull, I don't think Honda made it public

[gn2]

How did it get into your skull then?

[michaelphillips]

How did it get into your skull then?

on the nexus 500 its like below
The scooter has an integral brake system.
This is obtained with the left-hand brake pump connected simultaneously to the rear brake calliper and
the front right calliper.
The connection to the rear calliper is direct.
The front calliper is connected via a pressure control valve with two thresholds.
The correct splitting of the braking force is also obtained via the dimensioning of the diameters of the
discs and of the plungers of the callipers.
The integral brake system is also designed to meet higher standards of safety. To this end, simple
deceleration is obtained only with the rear brake.
When the pump pressure exceeds 8 bar, front and rear brake operate simultaneously.
In this phase the increases in the pump pressure are detected by both the callipers.
When the front brake pressure reaches 23 bar, a new phase of limitation starts.
Any increments in the pump pressure will be detected in linear mode by the rear calliper.
The front calliper only detects slight increases, for example 80 bar rear corresponding to 31.7 bar front.
Any demands for excessive braking force will always result in a loss of rear wheel traction.
This condition helps to avoid dangerous locking of the front wheel.
When the traction conditions, load and speed permit the use of the full braking force, this is obtained
by combining the function of the integral brake with that of the single front brake.

[Bluebottle]

Gets complicated doesn't it

How did it get into your skull then?

Like I said before, it's what I do as a designer.

When a company asks me to come round and play a lot of data starts flying around. This might come from the manufacture, from a competitor or from testing/disassembling.

Edit: Can't say it is definately true for all Hondas but it does apply to the PCX