Piaggio out Burger the Burgman.

[gn2]

You're right about the dealer network angle.
At the time I bought my PCX I wasn't even aware that the biggest bike dealership hereabouts was a Kymco dealer or I might have had a Downtown from them.
Wonder why their website and showroom was devoid of any mention of Kymco...?
Now that dealer has also taken on Sym there are more sightings of Sym scooters around the town but they remain a rarity.

[Data]

As Sym improves it's dealer network, and it will especially now it has proper maxi scooters coming online, their sales will rocket. It's lack of dealers that has held them back, not the performance or quality of the bikes. Bikers like me often want to trade to maxi scooters (and are doing it in increasing numbers like I did) and that means proper maxi's with some performance, not the smaller 260cc jobbies calling themselves 300's (good though they are in their class). The Maxsym 400i is a proper maxi and nearly £1500 cheaper than the Burgman 400z abs, and the 2012 Maxsym is better equipped with it's traction control and abs. The Maxsym isn't really aimed at the 330cc X10 in my opinion as the performance of the X10 doesn't equal the Burgman 400 or the Maxsym 400 from what I gather from reading the first impressions and watching the videos. The X10 may have a 90mph top speed but it won't have the torque and therefore probably not the acceleration of the Burgman or Maxsym, which most people want to have. Yet they are asking a lot of money for it in 330cc format. The Maxysm 600i will likely not cost more than a Burgman 400 either and will be directly aimed at the maxi's like the Silverwing, and Six Fiddy Burgman etc etc. So the price will be right, quality above reproach, But the X10 is a great scooter by the look of it and it will sell well I'm sure but in the next class down from the Burgman and Maxsyms of this world. Just my take on it...

[GTscootz]

32.3N/M for the X10

[gn2]

As Sym improves it's dealer network, and it will especially now it has proper maxi scooters coming online, their sales will rocket.

What makes you think that bigger capacity machines will improve the dealer network or result in increased sales?
Are you forgetting that the world's most popular vehicle of all time (by a long way) was only 50 to 90cc...?

It's lack of dealers that has held them back, not the performance or quality of the bikes.

Lack of decent dealers, price, provenance and lack of brand identity.

The Maxsym 400i is a proper maxi and nearly £1500 cheaper than the Burgman 400z abs, and the 2012 Maxsym is better equipped with it's traction control and abs.

But The Maxsym is the same price as the X10 which is a proper maxi.
Yet to be seen if the ABS Maxsym will make it to these shores, after all remember that the ABS Downtown didn't.
The X10 will do all the Maxsym will do and more, it will go much longer between services.
Oh, almost forgot, the ABS 400 Burger isn't exactly a big seller.....

The Maxsym isn't really aimed at the 330cc X10 in my opinion as the performance of the X10 doesn't equal the Burgman 400 or the Maxsym 400 from what I gather from reading the first impressions and watching the videos.

I don't think that Sym are aiming at anything, looks to me like they are flailing around blindly.
The Maxsym is far too expensive and I believe it will be a flop in terms of UK sales.
You don't pay Ducati prices for a Hyosung 650, why would you pay Piaggio prices for a Sym...?

The X10 may have a 90mph top speed but it won't have the torque and therefore probably not the acceleration of the Burgman or Maxsym, which most people want to have.

Rubbish.
Most maxis spend the bulk of their time one up and on the few occasions that two-up is called for, the 330 X10 will have enough poke for the job.
According to reports I've seen, the Maxsym 400 peak torque is less than 2 Nm more than the 32 Nm of the 330 X10.
Maxsym peak power is less than 2 hp more than the 33 hp of the 330 X10.
So there's a not much to pick between them in terms of performance, but fuel economy may prove to be a different kettle of fish altogether.

Yet they are asking a lot of money for it in 330cc format.

Not really, it's only five hundred quid more than a Yamaha X-Max 250 and is a far better specced machine.

The Maxysm 600i will likely not cost more than a Burgman 400 either and will be directly aimed at the maxi's like the Silverwing, and Six Fiddy Burgman etc etc. So the price will be right, quality above reproach, But the X10 is a great scooter by the look of it and it will sell well I'm sure but in the next class down from the Burgman and Maxsyms of this world. Just my take on it...

Wrong direction, X10 is a class above as I'm certain the sales figures will show.
Time will tell if what people want is a stylish, modern, efficient well specced sleek Italian 330, an overpriced Taiwanese 400 barge with gimmicky discs and calipers or an overpriced tired old burger way past it's sell by date.

P.S, the Silverwing and big burger don't sell very well either.

[Fingers]

gn,,,,, go buy your x10 and be happy

... then please stop calling people stupid (which is what you are doing) who have either formed their own well founded views or made there own informed choice about their scoot, especially when they have had a piaggio for 3years...

Everyone has a different idea to what suits their needs, and obviously you have yours... and other people have theirs.

you quote facts and figures etc... but the great proover is riding the products to see what they are really like.

Cheers

[macamxthe1st]

Let me relate my experience of the Sym importer/dealer set up. Using their dealer list I phoned around several dealers within reasonable striking distance of my home with as I came to realize the forlorn hope of a test ride or even a look at a Maxsym 400. Not a hope in hell. None had one in stock (a couple said they were too expensive to carry) a number of them did not know what I was talking about (well informed or what) and as for a "Demo" well none of them even understood the concept but they all said that if I would like to give them 5k they could get me one unseen. In desperation I called the importer MotoGB who condescendingly told me that they did not take calls from the public but would speak to me on this occasion. They located a dealer who actually had one (over a 100 miles away) but as far as a test ride the nearest they came to understanding that was they had one machine which was doing the rounds of the magazines and no I could not have a go on that. Would I even consider handing over that sort of money for something that I had not ridden let alone seen, no way and I suspect that I am not alone in that view. Strike Sym from the list then.

Geoff.

[gn2]

gn,,,,, go buy your x10 and be happy

Not yet, it will be at least 18 months till I change scoot and the market will probably have changed by then.

... then please stop calling people stupid (which is what you are doing)

No, that's not what I'm doing at all, I'm merely participating in a discussion.
You are simply twisting things around to suit your own agenda.

the great proover is riding the products to see what they are really like.

I agree.
So has anyone on here actually ridden both of them yet?

[barryG]

gn2, the Burgman 400 may now be overpriced but it is certainly not tired. Its a fantastic scooter, looks modern and rides a dream. Needs better ground clearance and longer service intervals and thats it. It doesnt need changing and I bet a Maxsym 400 is no better and I agree with Data, the 330cc X10 cannot possible have the oomph of a 400cc scoot. Yes it might have the hp of one, but 70cc is just that and from what Ive read it just aint as quick.

As for Maxis being ridden one up mostly, what nonsense.... go abroad and see them with pillions all over, thats why they make such generous pillion seats and footboards! I think the new Maxsym 600 will be around £6000, they arent going to sell it massively cheaper than a Silverwing. Look at Hyundais and KIAs, they are in many cases more expensive than VW etc.... just cos its Korean wont make it cheap.

We shall see, I love the X10 but have reservations about only 330cc. After all people said the 278cc engine was really good and quick but I found it a right old slug.

[Bluebottle]

I don't think that Sym are aiming at anything, looks to me like they are flailing around blindly.

As for Maxis being ridden one up mostly, what nonsense.... go abroad and see them with pillions all over

Manufacturers aim at major markets, the UK is no longer a major market, we aren't even a significant market so nobody designs for it. UK divisions get a few aproximate fits from the model list. We are just an afterthought, worth mopping up but not worth huge effort.

That makes decisions look odd from a narrow british viewpoint, but complete no-brainers in the wider world - as BarryG points out

[halfabusa]

We are just an afterthought, worth mopping up but not worth huge effort.

so sad... as i love maxi-scooters and i wish they had a bigger market and variety... Whenever i go on autotrader or ebay to drool over some maxis, i find myself short on selection.

Surely, we have the usual bunch of burgmans, silverwings, etc but try searching for a gp800 or a kymco / sym as discussed here, and you end up finding one or two across the whole country!

That gentlemen, is just sad...