Apologies

[Gerard C]

I looked at a Sym 600 in P and D Autos in Wakefield last week and as far as sitting on it in a showroom can go its excellent. Sym 400 owned by my Mate seems excellent as well. I don't see any problem with this brand of Bike. I do see a problem with marketing them in the UK though. If something is cheaper then people look for the reason. That reason may well be less profit margin within the chain, or it might mean poor quality. (As I stress I don't see a problem in that area).
So lets suppose that its better economies of scale in production and efficient manufacturing techniques that provide the cost savings. This is great but by God its hard to convince people to change to a brand for that reason. To me its about engaging with your target market and putting the long term effort in within that Market. Classic examples are the re imaging of Skoda and the success of Kia. Both now desirable brands with no stigma attached to owning one.
For Sym or any other manufacturer to succeed in the UK they will need to have a sustained presence to build up confidence. In real terms the success in foreign parts is irrelevant to a UK buyer. Its UK performance they look at. With Skoda if you bought one earlier there was always a feeling of justifying your purchase - its better than you think -- Now its very different. Sym need that sea change.

[spaceprobe]

I think there is a lot in that Gerard, some years back I bought a new 2nd generation Kia Sportarge. At the time it got good reviews for its value for money and in fact 2 well known motoring magazines implied you you be daft to spend more money (a lot more) on the Toyota Rav since there was not a lot in it. I had 4 great years with it and it served my purposes well but I had to take a lot a stick for having a Kia often from people who did not have a clue about what they were talking about . Now Kia gets the last laugh with more and more accolades showered on them but sadly their prices have also gone up a lot.

[michaelphillips]

lets look at it the other way.. value and price are not really linked... so perhaps the big 4 charge higher prices because they dictate the market, just like quite a few other big corporate s do... so you were mentioning kia excreta they broke into our market by offering a great price, there product has increased in quality ( just like the early hondas) Sym are a strong brand in many countries so are Kymco, so they do maxis now.. they stand out to be great value, but dont think the price means lower quality... as they are not linked so do suzuki and honda up their game with new models before they start to loose out, as it seems once you have owned a sym your brand loyalty continues

[SkuTorr]

Or, you could do it the OTHER way, as in BMW and their C-series scoots. They had everything going for them, well before they even introduced the new vehicles:

1.) a rabid press that loved the new products, sight-unseen, based solely on the BMW name and Bigger Engine...
2.) an established following, and great recent sales numbers in the 650s and 1200s.
3.) a pre-judgment that would be expensive, but worth it for "A BMW"
4.) the Tmax's de-throning was not just predicted, but assumed...
5.) the Suzuki Burgman650 was pronounced DEAD

And....? None of it happened.

A shoddily-realized product was brought out too quickly, with the initial roll-out delayed because they looked like CRAP to the press. After the few changes were made in China with the body panel quality-control, it came out. And for three years now there has been a steady stream of recalls, failures and warrantee issues, with a bewildering array of parts not even being available to repair them with!

Tmax sales are as strong as ever, the new Honda Integra is carving-out a value-based market share, the revamped Burgman650s are outselling the BMW C650 "Burgman-Killer", and suddenly the press is not so hot about the BMWs any longer. Many are wondering if, in view of all the ongoing problems with no real resolution effort being made by BMW, they will just cut their losses (replacing ENTIRE BIKES as the only solution to failure of the recalled defective timing chain tensioners??? WTF???) and ax them entirely. They designed a cheap copy of the Mark II Tmax, with a cheap dry clutch, and this is what they got.

When Yamaha comes out with the ALL-NEW 2016 Tmax in late 2015, per their historic new model cycle, BMW won't be able to give their scoots away.

[bikerdezzie]

Totally agree, bmw pissed me off already selling Husqvarna and me losing money on my nuda which was a brilliant machine, what goes round comes round, I hope they lose fortunes on it, all the 2014 rt's been recalled due to safety issues already, never ends they have rested too long on there name and let there quality turn to shit, I have no sympathy for the tossers!

[smeghead]

Like Gerard, I too had a look at the Maxsym 600i in P&D. I all honesty I'd need to park up the Majesty next to the Sym to spot any 'quality' differences. The bike looked very well assembled from very good quality components, I couldn't see any glaring signs of cost cutting. The Sym is not a cheap scooter, it's just less money than the established opposition, i.e. Burger 650, t-max and Silverwing. Bear in mind though that to reduce costs they have fitted an existing engine from a quad bike, so have not had the R&D expense of developing and manufacturing a twin cylinder especially for the scooter. I am not being critical here, the simplicity and robustness of an already developed single suits a scooter and it's owners just fine. To get what Sym offer for £6k seems to me to be a great deal, I don't want to get into arguments about trade in values and the like as all bikes, cars etc a shite. I bought a Honda Jazz and lost more than the cost of a brand new Perodua Myvvi in three years ownership which means if I'd bought the Myvvi I'd have been able to give it away and still break even over the Honda!

[spaceprobe]

I have to say Smeg I dont understand the trade value stuff, I think its about being in the right place at the right time. I had a brand new mark 2 Mercedes A class (poor). I looked at changing it for a new C class after 3 years the dealer I got it from offered me a very poor deal. I then went to Kia and got the new Sportarge at a much better trade in than Mercedes had offered. The Kia dealer later told me they offered the A class back to the local Mercedes dealer who sold it and was told no way did they want it! When I was thinking about the Burg 650 one dealer offered me £1700 for the Maxsym 400 where the dealer that sold me the 600 offered £3000, go figure.

[smeghead]

Spaceprobe, I agree with you, they look in the Glass's guide then proceed to take the piss. A quick look at Autotrader and there's Burgman 650's 3 or 4 years old for £4k I bet they were bought in for at least a thousand less than that. Which means the owners lost probably around £4-5k trading in. If I bought a Maxsym 600i and sold it after 4 years I'd get more than a grand for it!

[spaceprobe]

What really gets to me is when you buy these things is the hard sell where you are told how these things hold their value. You should have seen the A Class brochure you would have thought I was buying an investment (do they think we are that stupid). My current car is an Audi A4 2.5 (love it). I got it when it was 3.5 years old, one owner full Audi service history from a local independent. All the original bills were with it, he paid £29k new, got £9k trade in and I paid £10k tell me that that does not make you weep. Interesting if its the same in other countries. Whats it like where you are SkuTorr

[smeghead]

You're right again Space, The motoring press create illusions about 'premium' brands Mercedes, Audi BMW etc and the reality is they are actually worse in reliability terms than mainstream cars. http://www.reliabilityindex.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The press bang on about 'build quality' because the dash board is soft to touch! As a percentage you may lose less with these brands but you've paid far more upfront for the privilege. The factor in the horrific cost of servicing and spares and the maths don't work for me i'm afraid.