Scootalli wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:14 am

Stibbs wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:44 pm If it was guidance the police couldn’t enforce fines. It’s the law. We should all obey it and be responsible. Too many health workers have died in order to protect us so it should not be taken lightly.

I dont think a single fine has been enforced in court.

The CPS wont take any cases to court in the event of non-payment of a fine as they fear they cannot be enforced in court.

But anyway, I have never agreed with the lockdowns personally, there is no evidence they work and even the World Health Organisation dont recommend lockdowns and imo the harm caused by lockdowns is more than that of the virus.

The government imo should have focused on protecting people who want to be protected. It would have been cheaper as well

Another ignorant person I see and an uninformed one at that! Sorry Scootalli but you asked for it! You clearly don't watch the news. Currently 2.6 million people worldwide have died from covid 19. The WHO makes it clear that lockdowns are the only option to prevent spreading of the virus until herd immunity can be reached through vaccination. It's a blunt instrument but the only weapon we have and the WHO recognises the detrimental effects it can have on people and the economy. But they state that it does restrict the spread of the disease. Plenty of folks have been to court, one case was squashed where two women were wrongly fined, but others, including some businesses have had their fines increased for breaking lockdown. And...ALL the evidence proves lockdowns work! That's why the whole world has had to use them to get the infection rate and thus the death rate down. The stats don't lie. Thinking you probably live on another planet! Thanks for a much needed laugh though!

Data wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:00 am

Scootalli wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:14 am

Stibbs wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:44 pm If it was guidance the police couldn’t enforce fines. It’s the law. We should all obey it and be responsible. Too many health workers have died in order to protect us so it should not be taken lightly.

I dont think a single fine has been enforced in court.

The CPS wont take any cases to court in the event of non-payment of a fine as they fear they cannot be enforced in court.

But anyway, I have never agreed with the lockdowns personally, there is no evidence they work and even the World Health Organisation dont recommend lockdowns and imo the harm caused by lockdowns is more than that of the virus.

The government imo should have focused on protecting people who want to be protected. It would have been cheaper as well

Another ignorant person I see and an uninformed one at that! Sorry Scootalli but you asked for it! You clearly don't watch the news. Plenty of folks have been to court, one case was squashed where two women were wrongly fined, but others, including some businesses have had their fines increased for breaking lockdown. And...ALL the evidence proves lockdowns work! That's why the whole world has had to use them to get the infection rate and thus the death rate down. The stats don't lie. Thinking you probably live on another planet! Thanks for a much needed laugh though!

Thanks for the reply, I wont go into further details as clearly you have your view and it isnt a simple discussion . This is a scooter forum afterall - My stance is anti lockdown.

I take your point on the fines and will look further into that in my own time, most (I would say) of the fines were dropped, this was widely reported in the mainstream press, but maybe we should both avoid the use of terms that are black or white as there are shades of grey in everything



Edited to reference your 2.6 million deaths of covid, I would dispute that number, maybe 'with' covid is a better description, but that is highly debatable.

Less than 400 people have died in the UK 'with' covid who are under the age of 60 and have no other co-morbidities.

The NHS count a death from Covid anyone who has had a positive test in the 28 days prior to their death, some are counted on symptoms

The test itself is highly debatable too (PCR) test,

I spoke to a nurse about how the test works, the PCR test cannot identify a particular virus.

This probably isn't the place to discuss the virus, but I would take issue with the idea that Lockdowns 'are the only option' to handle the disease. Many of the most successful countries haven't needed lockdowns at all, or at worst very selective ones. One way, as demonstrated by the Koreans, is to have a very effective Test & Trace system rather than the useless £37bn one we run by the wife of a Tory MP and several private sector organisations. However, such systems are quite intrusive of privacy, so I guess that to be effective, they would need full cooperation and support from the public - and that ship sailed a long time ago...probably in the direction of Barnard Castle!

Mr G, the test and trace system is up and running in the UK. About a month back my daughter (who is a health visitor for Southern health), received a text which told her about the infection of her ex. partner who had tested positive for covid-19, warning him to self isolate etc. Most of the people in the NHS use the app. But it will only work if enough people use it. I would suggest that in countries like S.Korea and Southern Asia in general, there is a greater sense of community and social responsibility, and people use these apps much more frequently than in the west.

Scootalli wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:49 am

Data wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:00 am

Scootalli wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:14 am

I dont think a single fine has been enforced in court.

The CPS wont take any cases to court in the event of non-payment of a fine as they fear they cannot be enforced in court.

But anyway, I have never agreed with the lockdowns personally, there is no evidence they work and even the World Health Organisation dont recommend lockdowns and imo the harm caused by lockdowns is more than that of the virus.

The government imo should have focused on protecting people who want to be protected. It would have been cheaper as well

Another ignorant person I see and an uninformed one at that! Sorry Scootalli but you asked for it! You clearly don't watch the news. Plenty of folks have been to court, one case was squashed where two women were wrongly fined, but others, including some businesses have had their fines increased for breaking lockdown. And...ALL the evidence proves lockdowns work! That's why the whole world has had to use them to get the infection rate and thus the death rate down. The stats don't lie. Thinking you probably live on another planet! Thanks for a much needed laugh though!

Thanks for the reply, I wont go into further details as clearly you have your view and it isnt a simple discussion . This is a scooter forum afterall - My stance is anti lockdown.

I take your point on the fines and will look further into that in my own time, most (I would say) of the fines were dropped, this was widely reported in the mainstream press, but maybe we should both avoid the use of terms that are black or white as there are shades of grey in everything



Edited to reference your 2.6 million deaths of covid, I would dispute that number, maybe 'with' covid is a better description, but that is highly debatable.

Less than 400 people have died in the UK 'with' covid who are under the age of 60 and have no other co-morbidities.

The NHS count a death from Covid anyone who has had a positive test in the 28 days prior to their death, some are counted on symptoms

The test itself is highly debatable too (PCR) test,

I spoke to a nurse about how the test works, the PCR test cannot identify a particular virus.

You need to understand fully how covid deaths are recorded. We now record them inline with the methods just about everyone else uses. If someone tests positive for covid 19 and they end up in hospital and they die anytime within 28 days, it's usually deemed that covid is the cause. This is a fair way of recording it too as most covid patients die from heart failure, lung or other organ failures either directly caused by or brought on by covid. It's the only fair and proper way of doing it. One of my relatives a 56yr old female previously in good health and no underlying conditions died from heart failure caused by Covid 19. Her heart simply couldn't take the strain after 4 weeks on a ventilator. So it was a Covid death. It would be quite wrong to record her death as just 'heart failure'.

The BBC and others published the worldwide death rate for Covid 19 over the weekend and this morning. It's actually 2.62 million that we know about. It was made clear that the real figure is probably much higher.
World Wide Covid Death rate

Your nurse friend is wrong about the PCR test, these are Covid 19 specific tests. The Covid 19 PCR kit looks for only covid 19 dna as is made clear in the article I link to below. Perhaps your nurse friend is using the wrong tests.

Look for the quote I show below in the article.
Quote from Dr E. Ryan at Limerick University; Speaking to TheJournal.ie, lecturer in immunology and host-microbe interactions at the Department of Biological Sciences at the University of Limerick, Dr Elizabeth J. Ryan, said that viral tests for current cases of Covid-19 are “very specific” for material that is “only expressed by the Covid-19 virus”. She is referring to the PCR test for Covid 19.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus ... -accuracy/ The PCR test is high accurate but not completely infallible (neither is any test) as this article tells us.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around about Lockdowns, Covid, infection rates, deaths etc. It doesn't help when folks keep repeating it. Maybe I'm more interested in it that some because it's affected my family in ways others haven't had to endure. Anyhoo, stay safe.

Hi

This will be my last post on the topic as it will just go on and on and we are on scooter forum...

Thanks for the posting of your links, there are many disputing documents about this subject, even one from the WHO (again) about use of the PCR tests not being reliable...

I envisage there will be a lot of legal debate to come on the use of this test.

Sorry to hear of your relative, it seems she was one of the very unlucky ones, it would be inappropriate for me to say anything about the situation for your relative and you have my condolences on that front.

Regards

Hi Scootalli, yeah thanks for the kind remarks. If you have followed this thread and some of my other posts you will know I have lost 4 members of my extended family over the last few months to covid 19. All fit healthy people of differing ages with no underlying health issues. And all due to some non family idiots who didn't follow the laws relating to lock down. So this is all very close to my heart at the moment. My wife and I both contracted Covid 19 early last year just before lock down but we were really lucky. I only had it very lightly but my wife who was still recovering from two brain operations contracted it more severely but didn't need to go back into hospital. My wife and I had already started behaving as though there was a lock down well before it actually happened so we are not sure where we contracted the disease, but we have our suspicions. However, we have neighbours who 10 months later weren't so lucky and spent Xmas in hospital after suffering heart attacks, but surviving with Covid. Unfortunately they have been told their lives will be seriously affected in the future as they won't ever recover fully.

Regarding the PCR tests, in the beginning the medics didn't realise just how reliable they were so eired on the side of caution when talking about them particularly when some lab testing showed some makes of PCR were not quite as reliable as we now know them to be. One of my cousins was involved in that testing, he's a microbiologist and virologist. But it then became apparent quite early that virtually all the PCR tests showed good reliability. But one has to bear in mind there is always a risk of a false reading as with any testing. However, the old stigma from the news reports concerning this matter about PCR tests still sticks even though the news stations and news papers have reported the new facts some months ago.

Anyway, I ride my scooter several times a week at the moment as I'm a registered support worker and legal advocate for one of my ill cousins who lives 22 miles away. The best way to get there is by scooter as it's cross country down some really narrow lanes in the country. The scooter looks like shite some of the time but because I'm now retired I have the time to clean it. And, I really enjoy giving it a clean...weird I know!

Hope you are good and stay safe.

MrGrumpy wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:04 am Frankly, I couldn't give a f*** about stupid rules any more...

This. I've got so bored of being lied to by our triple-faced Tory government that I have taken to making my own risk assessments on my riding activities, and if it feels safe to me then I crack on. I don't carry a pillion, use pay at pump and if I meet up with people it's outdoors and suitably distanced. On that basis if I want to ride my bike it's no-one's business other than mine.

Jaz wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:15 am

MrGrumpy wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:04 am Frankly, I couldn't give a f*** about stupid rules any more...

This. I've got so bored of being lied to by our triple-faced Tory government that I have taken to making my own risk assessments on my riding activities, and if it feels safe to me then I crack on. I don't carry a pillion, use pay at pump and if I meet up with people it's outdoors and suitably distanced. On that basis if I want to ride my bike it's no-one's business other than mine.

Oh I see...mmmm! Thats what I think most of us would expect your behaviour to be. At least you are trying to be safe.

Have you had the `common cold` over the last year ?

Not a lot of it about which shows that distancing and face covers work .