Steve_D wrote:Could you repeat that again in English.

Yes, do what I tell you or crash and die.

Easy!

Got it!

Abs should be an option not mandatory ,I rode a srv with abs and atc it was horrible and completely destroyed the ride IMHO ,yet my honda s abs was indeed confidence inspiring . My personal choice is to have linked brakes where possible as I have found this to help the overal ride on machinery that has budget suspension by balancing out the braking effect as not to show up the I balancing effect caused when pushed using non linked brakes ie overloading the front to induce more dive than is nesscary which would be normally balanced out using combined rear braking . I know so many people who never use there rear brakes even for stabilising when at a slow pace or 2 up scares me . Abs will continue to evolve but I think people relie on it too much and neglect there braking practice . IMHO

the main accident i had abs wouldnt of helped at all as i was being pushed sidways by a car

i feel that ive been riding long enough to read the road and spot the idiots who ARE out to kill me

just yesterday when taking my vespa over to the dealer i had some idiots in a transit pick up sat right on my arse

road was damp so couldnt throw the scoot round like normal but i wasnt hanging about

and the road was too dangerous to stop and let them pass

again abs wouldnt of helped in any way

The thing about ABS is that it isn't a miracle cure for every circumstance, but it can do something genuinely useful which contributes to your safety.
Think about another piece of safety equipment the crash helmet.
Remember the furore when they were made mandatory?
People came up with all sorts of shite about how they didn't need or want a helmet.
Well its the same with ABS.

Only a luddite doesn't want to take advantage of technology to improve their own safety, but let's keep away from the obligation as it's a different construct entirely than the efficacy.

We are now at v.8 v.9 of the Bosch system and the new KTM version even works while the bike is cranked over. There are simply NO remaining arguments that a rider is `better` than ABS, excepting the rare scenario when the requirement to NOT have ABS means either the rider is a prick (stunting), or a prat (gone somewhere they shouldn't).

The point is that, just as a helmet on ones' head doesn't imply things are going to end well in a head-on with a 40-tonner, you have to train to use ABS, because the ABS capabilities only really come into play at the extreme end of the operating envelope. In s doing you teach the rider how little of the performance of their brakes they were using before, instilling the one thing that every rider needs - confidence. A perfect example is riding in the rain - we've talked previously about how a rider lacking confidence in the wet usually makes all the wrong assumptions and rides so slow that the tyres don't reach operating temperature, which makes them feel squirmy, which the rider interprets a slack of grip, costing them even more confidence, which impacts on the riding in other ways. A confident rider rides faster and smoother, making for an overall happier experience, compensating for the conditions in other ways.

Things didn't go well for the Luddites...

irev wrote:let's keep away from the obligation as it's a different construct entirely than the efficacy

Wouldn't want to completely cut off the supply of Darwin award winning organ donors.

An extreme example of how ABS differs from non ABS on a motorcycle in 'certain' conditions...

[BBvideo 560,340][BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

I've had the ABS operate in only a couple of situations. There have been a few where I thought it would, but somehow I stopped hard without getting to the point of locking. Phew!

When the ABS did work, it was amazing. One time was down the Commercial road in Whitechapel in the wet when a pedestrian ran out without looking, the other was coming over a crest to find a deer standing in the road just beyond it. Both times I had no time to think of anything except "brake!". So I did. Hard. I had confidence that no matter how hard I pulled on that lever, so long as it didn't break, the bike would work it all out for me.

Happily, both the ped and the deer survived. Although I had some serious rear-end wobble (the back wheel, stupid) I stopped upright too, so saving me a large wedge of dosh.

To be honest, after 2 years and 20k miles on it I don't even know if my currrent scooter has ABS or if it just has the badge stuck on it. I hope not to find out, too.

irev wrote:............A perfect example is riding in the rain - we've talked previously about how a rider lacking confidence in the wet usually makes all the wrong assumptions and rides so slow that the tyres don't reach operating temperature, which makes them feel squirmy, which the rider interprets a slack of grip, costing them even more confidence, which impacts on the riding in other ways. A confident rider rides faster and smoother, making for an overall happier experience, compensating for the conditions in other ways.......

That about sums me up - more so on my very recently purchased FJR - I dont think I've had the chance to ride it on a dry road since I bought the bloody thing! I need more practice in the wet, I think.