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Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:57 pm
by halfabusa
Data wrote:Hi halfa, sorry to hear you are having a glitch like this. The blokes are all talking complete sense regarding the possible problems. Just one thing. Would strongly advise you always wait for the instruments to boot up before pressing the starter button. Otherwise there is a chance the bike will stall randomy during warm up at junctions and when coming to a stop. It won't always do it but it makes it more likely it will happen as the ecu loads a random set of ignition/injection parameters that won't give best performance or optimum running conditions for the first few miles of riding. Hope she is fixed quickly.
That could explain the stalling issue the other week Data. I was always thinking that the lights coming on with ignition would consume from battery life, and therefore always rushing the startup.
I did try a few more times after work today, and first few tries i had the same problem where the immobilizer light was flickering as the starter motor turned, but just when i started recording on the video, no more flashing, just starter motor turning with no life... Now that the battery has taken some beating, i connected it up to the charger and i'll retry once it's charged up.
Above is the video i captured having the issue.
One more thing i noticed while trying this evening was that i can hear the fuel pump priming fine, starter sounds fine, but just when i turn off the ignition after a failed attempt, there's a quick ticking sound coming for a second or so. Dunno if that's got anything to do with the starter or something else...
I did try with the jump starter as well, with no avail.
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:01 pm
by Dave Weller
Quick ticking sound is usually the starter relay. Usually an indication the the Battery is low. hopefully a good charge will start it.
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:16 pm
by halfabusa
Is it possible to reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery? I'm just thinking over what Data said about ignition and timings going wrong due to premature startups.
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:13 pm
by halfabusa
Can anyone make sense out of that video? I'm suspecting also it could be spark plugs... Darn, i need my bike for work. Hate trains
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:32 pm
by syntec4
halfabusa wrote:i'll try again after work today and note more details. From what i can remember in the morning:
- Starter spinning normal speed, turning over but not catching
- I didn't wait for the boot up (normally never wait) initially but after a few tries, i waited for the whole boot up. Immobiliser light went off and then i tried starting again, i noticed while turning over, immobilizer light flashed, is that normal? (although it turned off after initial boot up) I also tried with the spare key in case there's an immobiliser issue...
- Nothing changed recently, bike's done 5000 miles in total, last serviced before i bought it by the shop (standard oil/filter change as per suzuki's book)
- Bike was normal running on friday when i parked it up. Battery charge is good, but i'll recharge tonight again before trying. I'll also try with my portable jump starter to eliminate possibility of a battery related issue.
- I did have a similar issue before, a couple of weeks back where
it just stalled as i did an emergency stop, due to a car coming out while i was filtering. The engine didn't start back up for a long time, and after trying for at least 10-15 times, it fired up normally as if nothing happened.
- In between that previous incident and today's, i had a long ride out to wales, 600 miles in total. Then last week i commuted all week as usual.
The only thing out of ordinary is i didn't wash the poor thing this weekend, as i had no time
maybe it's too spoilt and demands a wash before moving off...
How can i get to coil mountings? Is it a weekend jobbie? I have no garage so i'll need daylight and above freezing conditions if it's a long job to get to.
Is there a fuse for immobiliser that i can easily get to and observe?
If it doesn't start up tonight after work, i'll take a video and post it here.
If it starts up, i'll always have it in the back of my mind that this may repeat itself, so i'd rather it didn't start and therefore i could have something to show the dealer... Talking about which, i wonder if they would come and pick it up from my drive or would i need to push it to their shop... It's not as heavy as my old 650 beast but it's still about a mile or so to the shop from my house...
I don't know much about burgers but if this was on a 'conventional' bike I would have the multi meter on the fuel cut-off switch to see if its tripped/faulty. GSXR's used to have an issue with this, it might even be the same part. The burger might not even have one?
The switch starts to fail and will cut the fuel supply thinking the bike is on it's side. Sounds like it's turning over ok but has no fuel/spark. Can you pull the plug and see if there is a spark?
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:37 pm
by Data
halfa, vid doesn't tell us much unfortunately. However, does the bike smell of petrol after you have been trying to start her? After several goes it should, otherwise if it doesn't it's prolly a faulty fuel injector. These are electronic injectors and sometimes an injector solenoid jams preventing the tip from errrr...injecting! I used to come across it from time to time on Honda's and Nissans and some bikes. It's not too uncommon. If it jams it won't show a fault code. A gently tap with an insulated screwdriver on the base of the injector at the same time as someone pushes the starter button will often free it and the engine will roar into life. But be careful if you try this as you can break the injector if you tap it too hard. It's gently gently tap tap to jar the injector. That's all you want to do. You will then need to get a new injector fitted. Not expensive.
Of course, if it smells of petrol then you aint getting sparks so could be plug as you say or it's associated wiring. The fact the engine turns over virtually rules out interlocks anywhere on the bike I would have thought.
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 pm
by pikey
Take plug out if you have been getting fuel will be wet clean it test for spark try another plug if no sparks as long as fuel and spark it will make some sort of attempt to fire at least once after that its coil which was mentioned before.Does immobilser interupt starter or just sparks /fuel on these ?
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:29 pm
by halfabusa
I just retried after fully charging the battery up on the trickle charger. After about 4-5 attempts the engine started up... Momentarily, but as soon as it did. I let off the throttle, which was a mistake, and it died, not starting up again. Then the battery started draining after a few more tries, so i put it back to charge. I'll try again before i give up for the night but i'm not keeping my hopes high... I couldnt smell any petrol, thats not to say it wasnt smelling though as its out in my garden with a strong breeze dispensing any kind of smell even if there was any.
Where would i find the injector? I might try out the spark plug first though. My sixth sense tells me its the spark plug.
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:34 pm
by pikey
Go for simple stuff first you can get carried away with techno theory stuff
Re: Burgman 400 L0 Not starting up, trains for me today
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:46 pm
by halfabusa
simple stuff would be persuading it with a hammer
I just wish the weather was a bit more tolerable...