Drago wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:24 pm
1) it's not a clone. It's a competitor for the sports scooter category yes. So it will be similar in layout/style to a t-max. I find it odd how SYM/kymco get labelled clones, yet the Japanese NEVER do. The Yamaha tri-city 300 - met with excitement no it's a piaggio MP3 clone comments at all!? The Japanese always tend to copy each other.

I could accept that you were right if I could tell the Tmax, Sym TL and Kymco Ak550 apart! The body styles are so similar its ridiculous. The Sym even copies the Tmax's unusual (make that unique!) engine layout. Is the BMW C600/650S a Tmax clone? Its certainly was designed a close competitor to the Tmax, and there are certainly many similarities, but somehow its different enough not to be a clone IMHO. You could regard the Kymco as (almost) BMW mechanical bits within TMax bodywork! I'm all for people bringing out new Maxis, but I'd like manufacturers to bring out more distinct choices. However, marketing realities probably dictate its safer to bring out something very like an existing highly successful product, but cheaper.

To wonder further, its perhaps curious that none of the other Japanese manufacturers tried to copy the Tmax - Suzuki & Honda went more for a big touring scoot, and Kawasaki seem to have abandoned their rumored plans for a sport maxi.

As for the 3 wheelers, Piaggio were obviously the people who created the whole genre. The Tricity 125 was interesting as although it looked tiny, it was much lighter than the MP3, which is a very heavy beast. But the Tricity appeared to be a bit feeble performance-wise, so the 300 version should give better performance making it more useful for bigger roads - but I haven't seen a weight for it. If they've kept the weight under control, it will be an attractive commmuter scoot.

I can confirm SYM scooters are excellent machines and indeed, very high quality. I can say this having spent sometime servicing a Maxsym 400 and riding several smaller SYM's over the last couple of years. Definitely well engineered bikes and the newer ones have a very high quality finish. Don't forget the 5yr warranty on bikes over 125cc, and a 3yr warranty on bikes under 125cc. The reason more SYM's are not sold is down to the very poor importer strategy on sales, or lack of it! Nothing wrong with the bikes though.

Interestingly, SYM will be joining Kymco at the NEC this year. At last, has the importer seen the light?

I'm quite open to buying a Sym or a Kymco - the AK550 is clearly a very good machine, just as good to ride as a Tmax. But as been mentioned, the UK importers aren't any good, the dealer network is fragmentary and the spare parts supply of Sym in particular worries me. I saw a very shiny Sym in my local workshop - looked brand new but was ten years old, but had fried its wiring loom. Sym just could not supply a spare loom for it. You want a part for even an 18 year old mk1 Tmax, and Mr Yamaha will (probably) supply it in a day or two.

MrGrumpy wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:02 pm I'm quite open to buying a Sym or a Kymco - the AK550 is clearly a very good machine, just as good to ride as a Tmax. But as been mentioned, the UK importers aren't any good, the dealer network is fragmentary and the spare parts supply of Sym in particular worries me. I saw a very shiny Sym in my local workshop - looked brand new but was ten years old, but had fried its wiring loom. Sym just could not supply a spare loom for it. You want a part for even an 18 year old mk1 Tmax, and Mr Yamaha will (probably) supply it in a day or two.

So if you're in the market for a small scooter (50, 12, 200) then buy a Sym from Peugeot?

Maybe Peugeot should take on the AK550 and other big Syms?

StephenC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:33 pm

So if you're in the market for a small scooter (50, 12, 200) then buy a Sym from Peugeot?

Maybe Peugeot should take on the AK550 and other big Syms?

I actually have a Peugeot dealer in my town, though never had any dealings with them. I'm not in the market for a smaller commuter type scoot anymore, but if I was, the Citystar and Elyseo (or whatever it was called) looked like good scoots. Peugeot have dabbled with bigger scoots but like Piaggio only made overgrown little scoots.

From the video it seems clear where Sym have saved money, and that's only a bad thing if you hate choice. Want a premium product with all the bells and whistles? Yamaha will take your money. Have similar requirements but less money, or are willing to compromise on weight, performance, and features? No sweat, Kymco and Sym are here. Clearly they believe that there are sufficient people who will buy a cheaper, lower-specced version of a T-Max to develop one, they've spotted a niche and are going for it. Good for them.

Dealer presence is, indeed, the biggest problem here in the UK. It's a chicken and egg situation. Sym has no good dealers, so no-one buys Syms, which in turn implies that no-one wants Syms and therefore disincentivises dealers from taking on the brand as franchisees. Sym would need to make a monumental marketing effort to generate public interest, and then sell that interest to potential dealers to convince them to take a risk. If it worked out, they'd sell a whole bunch of scooters and make some money, rewarded for their bravery. If it didn't work, if the product turned out to be no good or the marketing failed, they'd be left out of pocket with a bunch of stock they couldn't sell.

I've always said that maxiscoots could've done just fine in the UK if the relevant manufacturers got off their collective asses and invested in some quality marketing of the concept. But again, it's the same financial chicken and egg at work. Honda gambled unbelievable amounts of money on their original C90 ad campaigns in the US. If it hadn't worked out, it would likely have killed Honda Motorcycles in that market. As it stands, they're still the biggest behind Harley Davidson.

Nick

EvilRacer329 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:33 pm

Dealer presence is, indeed, the biggest problem here in the UK. It's a chicken and egg situation. Sym has no good dealers, so no-one buys Syms, which in turn implies that no-one wants Syms and therefore disincentivises dealers from taking on the brand as franchisees.

I think MotoGB (if that's the correct name) are quite good at disincentivising dealers all by themselves! My local workshop almost became Sym dealers (they aren't a dealership at the moment) but in the end found MotoGB so difficult to deal with that they pulled out.

MrGrumpy wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:28 pm

EvilRacer329 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:33 pm

Dealer presence is, indeed, the biggest problem here in the UK. It's a chicken and egg situation. Sym has no good dealers, so no-one buys Syms, which in turn implies that no-one wants Syms and therefore disincentivises dealers from taking on the brand as franchisees.

I think MotoGB (if that's the correct name) are quite good at disincentivising dealers all by themselves! My local workshop almost became Sym dealers (they aren't a dealership at the moment) but in the end found MotoGB so difficult to deal with that they pulled out.

Same with the local ( and very successful) Kawasaki dealer here. They did actually take on the Sym range, and dropped them again very rapidly.

Talking of dealers - I've just noticed that it looks like the one Kymco dealer within reach of me has folded - their website has vanished as has their facebook account! So it looks like an AK550 is even further from the shopping list now.....though Yamaha's dealer coverage round here is poor as well.

Motech in Newcastle do Sym i am mates with the owner, he had a cruisym 300 earlier in the year but owt bigger he would only order in if buying but will ask him when i get conformation its definatly coming to the UK and if he gets one in i will let you know, sometimes there will be a demo bike that gets shared around dealers so they might have one a few weeks then it moves on but not sure if it will happen if at all.