E10 fuel consumption

[Waldorf]

I'm not riding many miles on the Forza at the moment but have filled up with E5; my bike is my hobby and I choose to spend more on fuel for personal peace-of-mind. Fuel-consumption is not an issue, for that reason, except when I'm beginning to worry about where the next petrol-station is!
I have felt for many years that branded petrol (and diesel) is better than supermarket petrol and have had many a disagreement with those who say it's all the same; in fact, I'm having one at the moment elsewhere with a former member of Muppets. I was slagged-off for suggesting that my vehicles 'feel' better on BP, Esso or Shell, that brand- loyalty is ridiculous .... and this by someone who rides from York to the Lake District to buy a particular brand of sausages!

[Data]

But it's really interesting Derek and indeed you too Chris for posting about your Tuscons. Wondering why it would affect your cars so much. It's possible you may both need an ecu update to smooth things out, or it could just be you both have water in the fuel tanks (we all have) but usually not much so as to affect performance. Thanks for posting about it. I'm going to speak with some of my tech friends in the trade to see if they have any experience of this with their car brands (mostly VAG group cars). Post back guys if you learn anything extra. Hope smeg doesn't mind us using his thread like this. But he is my bro you know!

[Data]

I'm not riding many miles on the Forza at the moment but have filled up with E5; my bike is my hobby and I choose to spend more on fuel for personal peace-of-mind. Fuel-consumption is not an issue, for that reason, except when I'm beginning to worry about where the next petrol-station is!
I have felt for many years that branded petrol (and diesel) is better than supermarket petrol and have had many a disagreement with those who say it's all the same; in fact, I'm having one at the moment elsewhere with a former member of Muppets. I was slagged-off for suggesting that my vehicles 'feel' better on BP, Esso or Shell, that brand- loyalty is ridiculous .... and this by someone who rides from York to the Lake District to buy a particular brand of sausages!

Yeah, I know Waldorf. It's just that folks don't understand how the fuel industry works. And for the record, mostly branded fuel IS better than the supermarket fuel with just one or two exceptions. Although supermarket fuel has improved by some way these days making the difference not so great. An example is Tesco Momentum 99 octane is a really supreme fuel but far too high in octane for most folks to need to use and indeed could carbon up some engines if it were to be used as some vehicle ecu's won't be able to advance the ignition enough to allow full burn cycle so some dirt gets left in the cylinders and on the exhaust valves. It does have lots of extra premium grade cleaners in it and it's genuinely a high octane and it comes from a special premium fuel refinery where they only make the good stuff. Shell very high octane is also very good and comes from the same place. All the other fuels whether branded or not come from a different refinery and are all the same until getting to the fuel distribution centres where the petrol is treated with the additive packs specified by the different garage brands. Shell and the other big brands do tend to use much better first grade cleaners and other sniffer agents and this does tend to make them better, as per the Top Gear and Fifth Gear testing that was carried out a few years ago. Supermarket petrol overall didn't do too well. However, surprisingly in one of the Fifth Gear tests Asda petrol did produce better miles per gallon results! There are reasons why that may have happened, such as petrol swapping by the garage fuel suppliers. Tesco and Esso now also have a tie up together meaning that the petrol is very similar and possible the same for their standard E10.

[Waldorf]

Thank you, Data. I know you know a good deal more than many of us about fuel in this country so your remarks are very comforting.
When I was driving our dragster, on one occasion I sensed the engine wasn't running right; I knew because I sensed it and smelled it. My feelings were brushed aside.
Twenty feet off the start-line the engine seized!
It was a feeling and I was right!

[Jimo]

I always liked ‘National Benzole’ myself……!

Jim

[capitano]

I have felt for many years that branded petrol (and diesel) is better than supermarket petrol and have had many a disagreement with those who say it's all the same;

It's been the concensus on C90club for years, with regard to Honda Cubs.

The better the fuel, the better a Cub runs.

[smeghead]

Data:
Just wondering smeg about your figures on your HPE GTS. Unless you've become a throttle maniac overnight, why are you getting seemingly much less mpg than you normally do? I've check around with one or two folks I know with the HPE and they have been checking their fuel economy on E10 and again haven't noticed any difference that is easily measurable. They have been using the brim to brim method to get the best accuracy. All getting really good economy and slightly better than me. That's not surprising as the euro 5 is a bit more economical than my euro 3 bike. What method are you using each time to calculate your figures, if you don't mind me asking? Brimming and then Miles divided by Gallons? (4.54litres to the Gallon). You seem to be consistent with whatever method you are using. Also, how many miles has your bike covered. If it's low miles the motor is still con forming and still won't be at it's most efficient, but should be giving at least somewhere near it's previous figures (for last year at this time on E5). I'd love to check your bike over just to be sure there is nothing amiss like a loose connection to the IAT (induction air temperature sensor) or some other equally important sensor. The IAT has been know to malfunction and send the mpg's off a bit. But I suspect that's unlikely.

I really don't think I've become throttle happy lol. Generally I'm happy to tool along enjoying the ride. I am impressed with the HPE which is certainly more perky than the older engine and, up until recently, was marginally better on fuel. I always brim the tank, at the same time I zero the odometer therefore I can work out the mileage as accurately as possible. The bike has done just over 3000 miles and is fully serviced by the supplying dealer and I check the oil frequently as I'm aware that the HPE engines can use a bit. Mine did so but seems to have settled down now, I've not needed to top it up for a while now. Mechanically it feels superb, as it always has. I'm not upset about the drop in MPG, 80 odd is still amazing after all. I will keep checking to see if it comes up again, I tend to calculate MPG every single time I fill up!

[Data]

Very good smeg. Your bike engine is starting to be more conformed now and although not yet completed, it's getting there. One thing you might like to check though is the spark plug. I had one of my friends round with his GTS HPE and the spark plug was loose. It was the original plug and the bike had just 5,000 miles on the clock. It was going well enough but it turned out the spark plug was loose. I checked the bike over for him as he had mentioned it was not quite running as well as it had been a few weeks ago. He didn't notice any particular drop in outright performance but his economy had dropped a bit that he had noticed. But it was a bit worse than yours. I checked the bike for error codes and didn't actually find any. However, after looking the motor over for obvious issues I decided to try the spark plug tightness. It was loose. I took the plug out and the threads were becoming quite dirty due to compression escape. The plug washer was not even compressed so it had never ever been torqued correctly. After cleaning the threads I torqued it up and the bike was running considerable better. He phone me to let me know. I'm assuming he is getting better fuel economy. It's not the first time I've found loose spark plugs on a bike or even a car. It does often knock economy as you loose some compression and you won't always notice any slight drop in performance. Just a thought.

[derekg]

Just for information and as an update as requested.The following was posted on a Tuscon Forum when I posted...no mention of his problem relating to the change in fuel...but temperature possibility? perhaps my experience is related to that?...anyway just updating another input. and apologies again for using this maxiscooter forum post.

"Tuscon... Had the same/similar issue for over a year. Hard acceleration, often between 20 and 30mph in 3rd, the car judders/stutters. Its happened once or twice in higher gears but only when accelerating at more than a 'gentle' way - frustrating as I would have bought a slower vehicle if I just slowly accelerated all the time! I took the car to the garage and they tested and didn't note anything wrong. It seemed to go away in the summer but then when the colder weather came back in, it occurred again. Even worse this time, and then the exhaust system warning light illuminated on the dash. I reviewed the manual and it advised driving at 50mph + for about 30 minutes. The next day I took it out and the light went off and the judder issue appears to have stopped...for now. This may help your issue, but again its frustrating having to drive for half an hour every month or so, on a pointless journey just to stop your car stuttering. I've only got my Tucson N-line to about 27mpg on average (7000 miles), 70 plate so its certainly not economical or environmentally sound doing this"

[Q-Ball]

I'm not riding many miles on the Forza at the moment but have filled up with E5; my bike is my hobby and I choose to spend more on fuel for personal peace-of-mind. Fuel-consumption is not an issue, for that reason, except when I'm beginning to worry about where the next petrol-station is!
I have felt for many years that branded petrol (and diesel) is better than supermarket petrol and have had many a disagreement with those who say it's all the same; in fact, I'm having one at the moment elsewhere with a former member of Muppets. I was slagged-off for suggesting that my vehicles 'feel' better on BP, Esso or Shell, that brand- loyalty is ridiculous .... and this by someone who rides from York to the Lake District to buy a particular brand of sausages!

I always fill up with super unleaded,normally V-Power as I have plenty of Shell stations on my way to and from work. I believe Esso do the highest octane petrol but not many stations around!
Used to use supermarket fuel years back and had a couple of bad fill ups from more than one station,also had a friend who had issues with supermarket fuel in a classic mini,drained the tank refilled with non supermarket fuel and off it went.
I personally believe high octane fuel is wasted in normal stuff like scooters and even in stuff like my SV 650 as the motors really are not in a high state of tune. But bikes are that good on fuel I don't mind spending extra on premium fuel,it makes me happy and even if it makes no difference to my bike,I don't care. I ran my Honda Grom 125 on Super from the day it got delivered and it was so slow it struggled to get out of its own way.
If premium fuel was just a load of rubbish like some claim high end cars like Ferrari and such would not recommend that there cars are ran on it for ultimate performance. Highly tuned cars such has GTR's have different maps to run depending on what fuel is available!
As for the sausage man,he is so wrong,he needs to go north to get his sausage,square Scottish sausage is the way