It's a scooter Jim, but not as we know it...

[irev]

This is not as OT as it first may appear:

http://www.gizmag.com/volkswagen-xl1-mo ... ient/26367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Two seats, hybrid powered, optimised aerodynamics does not just 100mpg but 261mpg, on just a meek 47-hp 800cc two-cylinder TDI engine, 27-hp electric motor and lithium-ion battery.
No wonder the Mana is discontinued and is exactly the diet I suggested the AN650 Burgervan needed, but didn't get.


This is precisely why scooters are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

[MrGrumpy]

I think filtering could be a bit tricky with it.......

[Deleted User 796]

I think filtering could be a bit tricky with it.......

I agree. Getting 261mpg (in ideal conditions in theory) is no good if I'm stuck in traffic for the extra hour that driving a car would take. Using li-ion batteries and made from carbon fibre panels will mean that thing won't be cheap either, especially when the bespoke batteries crap out after a couple of years and need replacing. I will be interesting to see how this car fares in safety testing too with its ultra thin and light components approach.

I agree with Irev though in that the r&d in cars is making bikes look pathetic in comparison. I wonder what a 125cc scoot with an electric motor and battery in the wheel would perform like for example?

Honda seem to be ahead of the game as they are releasing more smaller more economic bikes in their range, which while being slated by "bikers" (wankers?) will sell well to real two wheeled enthusiasts.

[horobags]

Id swap me MZ for one of them.

[Data]

That VW has lowish hp, but massive torque. Can't remember the figure but it's high and throws it down the road at a good rate of knots (excuse the nautical term). It's the way of things to come for sure, but it wont' replace the scooter for all the reasons that we all love scooters. And because of the fact that, as rtfm says, you just can't filter with it. A main reason two wheels are so good in towns and out and about. But, just around the corner we will be seeing new engines for scooters in the mid range size capable of many more miles per gallon than we presently get. So it's watch this space! Not convinced electric cars such as the Nissan Leaf approach is the right one either. Cost of the car is over £25,000. Cost of replacement batteries £19,400, and needed maybe as soon as every 5 years or sooner according to Nissan. They may be forced to look at hiring out battery packs instead. It's a hell of a cost though either way and makes a standard VW Golf with a 1.6TDI engine in it look very attractive and much more economical according to the AA.

[Bluebottle]

It would be great to see some of the other concepts make it onto the street too. This one developed from the L1 concept car from about 5 years ago. BMW are working on something similar at the moment but that isn't going to filter too well either.
There are a lot of small "range booster" engined electrics being worked on at the moment; I don't think I would blame any of them for killing off the Mana

[johnp]

Love the looks, love the idea but would not buy one.

[Dave Weller]

Not just the filtering, parking and road tolls are killing off the car.

[irev]

Not just the filtering, parking and road tolls are killing off the car.

If that were true, we'd have upwards of a quarter of the commuting population on scooters. We don't, so they aren't. Costs are making car use more problematic, but without a cheap, effective public transport infrastructure able to to take the commuter speedily, comfortably and simply where they need to go, there is no choice.

How about this: Not one single out-of-town retail development( y'know, the type where 70% plus of the population shop) in the last twenty years has incorporated a train station.


The only question of merit is why we are not seeing the same level of technical progress - if not far greater - in the maxi and scooter market. After al, it has most to gain. With current legislation the 125cc there is plemty of opportuinity to take advnatage of the loopholes that hybrids bring (the A1 category states "Small motorbikes up to 11 kW (and a power-to-weight ratio not more than 0.1 kW per kg) and 125 cc". Nowhere does it dictate the power of the battery...)

On one thing we all agree, Maxi's are not motorcycles. Therefore they should not be hamstrung and hidebound by the increasingly ridiculous choices that are being made by mo'sickle makers.

[gn2]

without a cheap, effective public transport infrastructure able to to take the commuter speedily, comfortably and simply where they need to go, there is no choice

Its a bit of a catch 22.
People won't give up their cars to use public transport but unless they do, public transport is severely hindered by the car.
There was much complaint about bendybuses taking up too much room, but a full bendy is the equivalent of 150 cars.